Where would you shoot an attacker?

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Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby HAMBONE » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:14 pm

I was told in my ccw class to shoot for the pelvis, if I carry 9mm or larger as it will shatter, causing the attacker to stop for sure. What do you guys think? Of course this would be if the attacker had a weapon other than a firearm.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby HAMBONE » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:11 pm

Thought so. The guy didnt seem very bright.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby jcwit » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:27 pm

Center of mass, without a doubt.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby getvicious » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:54 am

Center mass, why? Largest section of target - most chance of hit. Most vital organs there. USAF training was shoot center mass in groups of two.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby wknight40 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:13 am

Aim for the largest portion of the target. On an intruder/BG this is usually the chest area. Don't want to be picky in trying to hit a leg, arm, or head as these do not stay put long and offer less chance of being hit compared to aiming center of mass. Also keep in mind to shoot until the threat is over, even if they are not dead. Now if they die in the process, dead men cannot sue you, their family can though. So make sure you are in the right.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby WEdwards » Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:31 pm

getvicious wrote:Center mass, why? Largest section of target - most chance of hit. Most vital organs there. USAF training was shoot center mass in groups of two.


This agrees with my police training. Center mass in groups of two rounds.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby HAMBONE » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:20 pm

Yeah center of mass would be my first choice. Just thought it was interesting he told us that.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby getvicious » Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:36 pm

HAMBONE wrote:Yeah center of mass would be my first choice. Just thought it was interesting he told us that.

It is interesting. This is the first time I've heard that advice. That statement the instructor made has the ring of some trendy magazine article or video game strategy rather than real world based training.

Of course there are variations like 2 to center mass followed by 1 to the face.

Frankly, I think in a wild situation like actually having to fire in self defense anything that increases your (my) chance of actually hitting the bad guy should be done. That means shoot at the largest part of the person - center mass. Any place you (I) actually hit the bad guy, IMHO, will be partly luck.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby madmax » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:15 am

HAMBONE wrote:I was told in my ccw class to shoot for the pelvis, if I carry 9mm or larger as it will shatter, causing the attacker to stop for sure. What do you guys think? Of course this would be if the attacker had a weapon other than a firearm.


Whom ever told you that is full of crap. You always shoot center mass and if your really good two to the chest and one in the head.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby Warhawk » Sun May 18, 2014 8:57 am

We all have heard the phrase "two to the chest and one to the head". But I started doing something a little different,


Here is what I do at the range and with my dry fire drills. First shot will be about 3-4" above the belly button, move up a few inches fire again, repeat this until you reach the head. I learned this from talking the a friend he pointed out while two to the chest is good what if they had body armor those rounds didn't do much. But if you draw that line of rounds from the chest to the head you should hit the neck/throat area, face and head. If the don't have armor they still go down so no harm done.

I hope I explained that correct so it makes sense.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby HAMBONE » Sun May 18, 2014 10:02 am

makes sense to me!
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby GoesBang » Sun May 18, 2014 10:43 am

Warhawk wrote:We all have heard the phrase "two to the chest and one to the head". But I started doing something a little different,


Here is what I do at the range and with my dry fire drills. First shot will be about 3-4" above the belly button, move up a few inches fire again, repeat this until you reach the head. I learned this from talking the a friend he pointed out while two to the chest is good what if they had body armor those rounds didn't do much. But if you draw that line of rounds from the chest to the head you should hit the neck/throat area, face and head. If the don't have armor they still go down so no harm done.

I hope I explained that correct so it makes sense.


My thoughts:

Seems like wasting precious time and ammo at the same time.

If/when I get into that SHTF moment, I don't plan on sticking around to engage in a lengthy firefight. My first thoughts are to stop the threat and retreat ASAP.

I would rather empty a full magazine aiming center of mass and take my chances than attempt to draw lines up and down a bad guy's torso.

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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby ChrisTX » Sun May 18, 2014 11:20 am

My stepfather shot a guy in the pelvis. The guy plopped down complaining he'd been shot. He couldn't walk, but he was more than capable of getting off shots with the rifle he had. My stepfather? He was running for cover behind a car and pointed the gun behind him as he was running. The one 9mm round he fired from his sig 228 connected.

An officer shot a stone cold sober guy 13 times with a 45 (not including the rounds that missed). The three shots in the guys head didn't kill him instantly, but it did ultimately stop him.

There's no such thing as a good shot in a gunfight. There's only lucky and unlucky.
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby getvicious » Sun May 18, 2014 2:57 pm

GoesBang wrote:
My thoughts:

Seems like wasting precious time and ammo at the same time.

If/when I get into that SHTF moment, I don't plan on sticking around to engage in a lengthy firefight. My first thoughts are to stop the threat and retreat ASAP.

I would rather empty a full magazine aiming center of mass and take my chances than attempt to draw lines up and down a bad guy's torso.

"He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day"

What are we? Law Enforcement Officers? Military members? Licensed Security Officers? No, no and no. We're ordinary citizens who have either been authorized by law to carry a concealed weapon, or perhaps open carry of a weapon, or are legally authorized to have a weapon at our home, work place, car or etc.

We have no special legal standing beyond what unarmed citizens have. We have none of the special authorization legally granted to the Police or Military (in special circumstances like State / Federal Emergencies being declared).

Many states have "Stand Your Ground" laws, at least for some locations. NC (where I live) says you can stand your ground in your home, work place and car. FL says you can stand your ground anywhere in the state. Those seem to be a representation of the two extremes, some places or all places.

What does that mean? Stand your ground simply means you are not required by law to run away but rather can "stand your ground" and defend yourself (or family, etc.) with deadly force if needed. It does not allow us to initiate a confrontation or act like the Police.

Anywhere that "Stand Your Ground" does not apply, we are required by law to run away if we can.

Given our legal limitations, the: "I don't plan on sticking around to engage in a lengthy firefight. My first thoughts are to stop the threat and retreat ASAP." is a good, reasonable plan. Although retreat ASAP may be legally required initially.

ChrisTX wrote:My stepfather shot a guy in the pelvis. The guy plopped down complaining he'd been shot. He couldn't walk, but he was more than capable of getting off shots with the rifle he had. My stepfather? He was running for cover behind a car and pointed the gun behind him as he was running. The one 9mm round he fired from his sig 228 connected.

An officer shot a stone cold sober guy 13 times with a 45 (not including the rounds that missed). The three shots in the guys head didn't kill him instantly, but it did ultimately stop him.

There's no such thing as a good shot in a gunfight. There's only lucky and unlucky.

Smart man your Stepfather. Get away if you can.

Warhawk wrote:We all have heard the phrase "two to the chest and one to the head". But I started doing something a little different,


Here is what I do at the range and with my dry fire drills. First shot will be about 3-4" above the belly button, move up a few inches fire again, repeat this until you reach the head. I learned this from talking the a friend he pointed out while two to the chest is good what if they had body armor those rounds didn't do much. But if you draw that line of rounds from the chest to the head you should hit the neck/throat area, face and head. If the don't have armor they still go down so no harm done.

I hope I explained that correct so it makes sense.


Let's look at this in light of actual hit statistics and why the military trains to shoot at "center mass."

First let me say the way you train is your choice. The fact that you train at all puts you ahead of most people. Will your method work? I don't know and neither does anyone else till the situation actually presents itself and you employ your method of defensive shooting.

Nationally, the hit rate for Police involved in shootings is somewhere near 18%. This in no way reflects on the Officer's ability or their training. It does point out the nature of a shooting situation. That situation is scared, rushed, afraid for the safety of others, needing to act in a split second and the fact that the target and everything around the target is moving. Personally I'm kind of surprised the hit rate is as high as it is.

Why does the Military train to aim for "center mass?" Simple, center mass is the largest part of the person so you have the greatest chance of hitting the person there.

When I was in the Military, I was trained to shoot in groups of two (bang - bang - pause, bang - bang - pause, etc.). Why? Just like center mass, shoot twice and your chance of hitting the target goes up. Why pause? Ammo management and overkill. If two shots do the job more than two is a waste and you may need the other rounds for other targets.

So, your "shoot several rounds from low in the belly to the head" will cover the center mass piece of the target and will probably work. Based on Police hit rates and my Military training, I believe the likelihood of hitting the neck / head is very low. I do see a situation where the hit likelihood goes up - the attacker is within about 10 feet of you - which may be the case in a home invasion situation. In that situation shooting at center mass still works too.

Do I think your method is bad? Nope, but I don't see a proven history for it. Will I be changing my routine to shoot in groups of two at center mass? No. It's a proven method. Do I also practice two to the body and one to the face? Yep. Is any shot that hits the attacker a good shot? Yes!
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Re: Where would you shoot an attacker?

Postby Warhawk » Mon May 19, 2014 12:29 pm

Getvicous I agree with your points and want to clarify my post. My first shots are aimed at the bottom of the rib cage then just move up to the head. I know hitting the odds of hitting the neck or head are slim those are small targets that move quickly. In the best situation the chest hits will stop the attack but I don't count on it.

Everything I have read and people I have talked to show the one shot doesn't stop the attack right away that is a Hollywood myth. There are very few one shot kills with a pistol. You have a very small target in the spin of 1" wide and 4-5" long you have to hit and that isn't a 100%.

I have never looked into the how accurate cops are so I will assume your are correct. I have a friend that has to be 50% hit to qualify but that means 50% of the bullets can go any place else.

I train so i will be better prepared for that event that might come up. I know I'm not a swat guy and I don't run around my house decked out in tactical gear but I will do dry runs clearing my house(with pistol and/or shotgun) and drawing my pistol then shoot from nonstandard positions. The buy guy isn't going to let me adjust my footing to get into the perfect weaver stance and wait till I turn on my flash light.

Prepare and train for the worst case and everything else is easy.
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