Target Bans Guns

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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby getvicious » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:31 pm

The Washington Post ran an article titled: "Target announces but won’t enforce gun ban"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/03/target-announces-but-wont-enforce-gun-ban/

In the article they quote the Target's interim chief executive, John Mulligan who said:
“Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create,”
And
“Starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law.”

What do these corporate-speak statements actually mean?
IMHO, I believe these statements mean:
We at Target do not like guns. Guns are bad.
We at Target do not like the fact that people may legally carry guns in many communities. People who carry guns are bad.
We can take steps to legally prevent people from legally carrying guns into Target stores, we will not take those steps.
We will, rather, vilify law abiding people who legally carry guns and legally carry them into Target stores in communities where that is allowed by law.

A better title for the article would have been: Target vilifies law abiding gun owners who legally carry guns in Target stores without taking the steps necessary to legally prevent law abiding gun owners from carrying guns in Target stores.

I believe Target is attempting to appeal to the anti-gun community by saying "guns are bad and people who carry them are also bad" in the hopes that that community will see how Target supports their position and will shop more (spend more money) at Target. They're also saying "we're not taking the steps necessary to legally ban the carrying of guns in Target stores, even though guns are bad and people who carry guns are also bad" in the the hopes that the law abiding people who legally carry guns will not stop shopping at Target and take their money elsewhere.

I carry wherever it's legal. It's legal in Target stores even after the statements were made. At least it is in CO and NC which are the two places I've been after Target released the statement.
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:09 am

Excellent point and I do the same.

One of my kids asked me today, where do you carry dad? My answer; everywhere I go except church & inside schools. If I fly I charter and unless I am admitted to the hospital, I carry to visit friends @ the hospital. I don't enter states that don't have reciprocity even if I have relatives there and I never frequent a place that is not gun friendly.

Am I concerned about this? No. The 2nd Amd. is my right to carry (my ccl also). My attorney is my rights protector. my money talks for me and it certainly does not speak at Target stores, and never will.

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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby wildsailor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:41 am

Since all the major shootings have happened at 'gun free places', shopping at Target has just gotten significantly more dangerous for the general public. "Mom's Demand" is the group responsible and so far these places have complied with their demands (ban weapons or face a staged boycott):

Target
Chipotle
Jack in the Box
Chili's
Sonic

Starbucks went half way and only asked that people not open carry.

Kroger grocery store chain responded recently to Mom's Demand stating that 'customers are expected to act responsibly in the isles of our stores.' Kroger did not comply with a ban.

I have other issues with Target anyway (large donations to wacko liberal campaigns and banning religious holidays for its workers) so this is not a big deal for me; there are plenty of other alternatives. My prediction is Costco will be one of the next to make an announcement since they lean left like Target does.
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:17 am

Unread postby wildsailor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:41 am
Since all the major shootings have happened at 'gun free places', shopping at Target has just gotten significantly more dangerous for the general public. "Mom's Demand" is the group responsible and so far these places have complied with their demands (ban weapons or face a staged boycott):

Target
Chipotle
Jack in the Box
Chili's
Sonic


No longer does anyone in my vary large and extended highly conservative family shop these stores, nor will we any future ones that are not gun friendly. I try to influence all that I know to do the same. When, and eventually they will, liberals finally learn that gun control in any form does not work, after enough of them are killed, they may come to their senses.

Unfortunately my mother in law is a flaming liberal and will never come to this conclusion (I carry my gun when visiting and it drives her crazy, told her if my gun doesn't come with me, neither do her grand kids).

“The Second Amendment is timeless for our Founders grasped that self-defense is three-fold: every free individual must protect themselves against the evil will of the man, the mob and the state.”
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:44 am

My point made; sometime today or perhaps last night, on the news at noon today; @ Jack In The Box, where guns aren't welcome, a shooting @ drive thru, employee shot, bad guys got a way (so far).

Businesses banning guns are just asking for this kind of activity. Yet another reason not to frequent them.

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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby wildsailor » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:52 am

LareP wrote:My point made; sometime today or perhaps last night, on the news at noon today; @ Jack In The Box, where guns aren't welcome, a shooting @ drive thru, employee shot, bad guys got a way (so far).

Businesses banning guns are just asking for this kind of activity. Yet another reason not to frequent them.

Love your country, but never trust its government.


I think it was there in Atlanta where some restaurant (not a chain) went on the news and publicly denounced guns and made a big deal out of their restaurant being 'gun free.' They were robbed by 3 armed asailants the very next day. Do you have the details of that situation? It may have been 6 to 8 months ago now. The archive at The Daily Caller may still have the story. If I remember the story correctly the business and all the patrons were robbed in the incident.

Contrast this with my local Home Depot...about 3 months ago a man was trying to walk out with something expensive. When the guard at the door tried to stop him the man beat the guard, threw him to the ground, and was about to kill the guard with a knife when a licensed customer drew his weapon and persuaded the dirt bag to get on the floor and wait for the police. The customer saved the guards life!
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:17 pm

I remember one where this happened after the owner posted NOT WELCOME signs and the restaurant was robbed on 3 successive days the same week after posting and then the owner put a large welcome sign on the door after, inviting gun owners to frequent his establishment. I can still picture the entrance and the sign but can't remember where it was.

Here's one that happened in NC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGdI6rolVmk

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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby getvicious » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:55 pm

I remember that incident in Durham. That's not too far down the road from me.

From the Yahoo News article: http://news.yahoo.com/nc-restaurant-banned-guns-got-robbed-gunpoint-190221477.html

...criminals don’t obey gun laws and they don’t obey signs on windows...

Who would ever figure..... :shock:
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:12 pm


Re: Target Bans Guns

Unread postby parkerd » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:45 pm
Sorry Lare, but your position with your mother in law makes you one of those rabid gun people that fuels the gun haters. The first thing all those who want 2nd Amendment rights should do is respect the rights of others. That is also what the Constitution is all a about. Big man - threatening your mother-in-law she does not get to see her grandkids if you do not get your way. It is her house and you should respect her wishes.



Sorry, you don't know my mother in law & you'd have to know her to make this comment.

I told my mother-in-law that my house was her house, and she said, 'Get the hell off my property.'
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby Lare » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:38 pm


Sorry, you don't know my mother in law & you'd have to know her to make this comment.

I told my mother-in-law that my house was her house, and she said, 'Get the hell off my property.


By the way, the house is my house "mom" lives in at my wife's request because it's just a few miles away from my new home. Other than the issue of guns, Walmart, Hillary, politics in general and whatever else she can find to ride me on, we get along pretty well. I'd be happy to introduce you - your "opinion" might change.


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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby LareP » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby parkerd » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:45 pm
Sorry Lare, but your position with your mother in law makes you one of those rabid gun people that fuels the gun haters.

Postby parkerd » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:52 am
Thanks, but we don't need any more justifications for your behavior. Regardless of any string of reasons, you respect others wishes in "their" home, which is where they live, regardless of who owns it. Your right to bear arms should always be compatible with others rights not to.


First, I don't have to justify my behavior to you. Second, you are pretty lax with your assumptions and Third, I have an "assumption" of my own since you seem to be one of those people who jump to conclusions so easily.

I've read your history on this board. As a profiler for USAFFSS (although admittedly doing cryptanalysis) this is my "assumption"; you are a boarder line liberal afraid to step out of the closet, speaking of which "closet" is a scary word for you. You are probably around 5'7" or less and suffer from Napoleon complex. And you are on this forum and others because you have few friends and fewer people who actually like you. You have probably driven off at least dozens prior visitors, lurkers and members alike with your asinine comments.

If you're honest I bet you know I got it right. Stop being an ass, keep your misinformed opinions to yourself and support the forum like you are supposed to do. I can see why you were suspended from the forum. I'll bet a number of people here would like to see it permanent. Did I strike a nerve?

Future replies to your posts from me will depend on how you monitor yourself on this forum.

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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby HootmonSccy » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:22 am

parkerd wrote:
Responsible gun owners need to respect the rights of others who feel differently. This is especially true with concealed carried, Most states have realized this and concealed carry laws have provisions that allow individuals, organizations, and corporations may decide they don't want guns in their homes, companies, and retail establishments. While many of us may disagree, not only is it the law, it is common human decency to respect those wishes. To do otherwise only reinforces the all too prevalent misconception that gun owners are rude, obnoxious, backwoods, redneck, misguided people.


OK.. A couple of comments here... (assuming concealed carry)

1st on the topic above.. SOME states have laws that allow an individual, organization or corporations to decide they don't want guns.
Although it is LAW, it rarely carries penalties along with it..
An employer can make it part of their policy that there are no firearms allowed. But if you get caught, do they haul you off to jail, NO, you get suspended or fired from that job. The punishment is from the company not the STATE.
A Store can have a policy of no firearms allowed. They can even put up signs that state that policy, but in most states if you violate that policy, do they haul you off to jail, NO. Usually the owner/manager will ask you to leave. IF you don't leave, THEN you may be arrested, but for Trespassing (with a weapon) often a felony in many states.. But it's not because you brought a weapon in the store, but because you refused to leave when asked.
SO, Is it impolite for me to carry at a business that has a no guns policy? Maybe.. MY gun is concealed, so nobody should be offended by my actions..
I will agree and comply with their policy as soon as it is legally mandated (maybe) OR as soon as they have an action plan that will assure my safety in their store - posted, reviewed by me, and I agree it is a good action plan...

Stores adopt these policies for two reasons..
1) public outcry / organizational pressure - So a situation happens and the company gets in the news and customers complain, so they adopt a policy trying to squelch the outcry.
Or as is the case now.. Someone like Bloomberg comes along that can throw 50 million dollars behind his wishes and tries to shame companies into adopting the policy.
Neither of these reasons are usually backed up with a plan for my safety and well being...
2) Their lawyers tell the company it will reduce the companies liability if they take the actions should someone get shot in their store... There by reducing their insurance cost annually and reducing their risk of a big payout / publicity if a shooting should occur.
Again this limiting liability usually does not come with an action plan...

***************
Now to:
parkerd wrote: While the moderators may remove this post because they believe it is off topic


This is usually the issue with your posts.. They are on topic, but interlaced with comments about people personally instead of just focusing on the topic and not the poster...
People make comment on here I totally disagree with them on .. But you don't see me attacking their character, their political persuasion, or their whatever.. No, I attempt to refute their point with facts, and facts only.. I try my hardest (and yes it's a fight sometimes) to TRULY keep the FULL post "ON TOPIC" and not just most or some of it on topic with a smattering of Snarkeyness , Sarcasm, and Haughty Derision...

I thought about deleting the past 4 or 5 posts.. I don't like the posts. There is WAY too much personal attack and way too little "ON TOPIC", but I believe you both gave as good as you got...
It does NOT make the forum a friendlier place, but it does show that it's not just the moderators that feel that you use inappropriate behavior on this forum and that it's not appreciated.

So the posts will stay for now, but I reserve the right to change my mind in the future because they are enough off topic (on both sides) that they could ( and maybe should) be omitted.

Oh, just another thought.. If you two, or anyone else, wants to argue about WHATEVER, feel free to Private Message each other all of those juicy personal attacks.. The moderators have a higher tolerance for bad behavior in PM's than in posts. It still violates policy, but a user always has the choice of just deleting a PM if they wish, and nobody else has to be exposed to it.
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby jcwit » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:02 am

While parkerd and I have gotten into it in the past, and I have even put him on ignore, so as to omit his posts, lately he has really calmed down IMO. In fact I agree with his position in this thread. In stating this I mean nothing against LareP I just happen to not agree with him on this. Does this mean I agree with his mother in law, not hardly, but she is entitled to her opinion.

Regarding Target stores I left them in the dust years ago with their policy towards the Salvation Army and bell ringers at Christmas time, also their position regarding the Boy Scouts. Can not honestly say I haven't purchased anything from them in the last few years but when they run a lost leader that I know for a fact they are losing money on I more than willing to help their bottom line to go into the red.

There's my position on the subjects at hand.

Which in the grand scheme of thing in the world today means little!
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby wildsailor » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:25 am

Panera Bread has now fallen to the pressures of the Mom's Demand group making a statement to leave your guns at home on Monday 8-Sep-2014.
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Re: Target Bans Guns

Postby jcwit » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:51 am

Well I never ate there either. :D
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