Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

For the general discussion of SCCY Industries firearms. Includes the SCCY CPX-1 & CPX-2 compact 9mm and CPX-3 subcompact .380 ACP handguns.

Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby strider43 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:58 am

Mrbone wrote:They are junk guns. Mine has gone back 5 times. Even had the whole gun replaced. The replacement was broken right out of the box.That is not a good product or company. As for the cost of repairs, they are using wood shims on some fixes... And as to Hickok and the 11 rounds, thats malarkey because back before sccy disconnected itself with this forum, their armorer jason came on here and told us all that 11 rounds is fine and he even carries his that way. I always put 11 in the mags. And if you look in hickoks video, the pins have walked out. Dont you think its odd that you see TONS of bad issues here YET these guns get good reviews in magazines? They are inconsistent. Instead of fixing the few issues this gun has like snapping ejectors walking pins and whatever else, they continue to sell junk guns. For christs sake we are talking about a company that has been making ONE MODEL of gun for over 10 years and its still not right. No dealers in my area will even stock sccys.


I have had the same experience, my 1st one went back 4 times before they replaced it. The replacement out of the box didn't work, the replacement has been back twice I think and then the slide broke. They sent me a new slide that wont eject live rounds or shell casings. I asked for another slide and they said someone would call me. They don't have any competent tech's or they would not send guns back to the consumer that don't work! If what we have are anomalies why don't they replace the guns with guns that they have tested and they know work?
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby strider43 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:02 am

rogertc1 wrote:As you can see from my join date I have had a SCCY since then. They are a fine pistols.I have 4. Reliable and fit my hand well. You can Google any manufacture and find problems with their gun and owners. Most people who go to forums are there because they have problems with their gun. SCCY also has great Customer Service. Great company.


they try but when you send broken guns back to consumers I wouldn't label that as "great"
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby strider43 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:07 am

FloridaPilot wrote:
parkerd wrote:Florida Pilot:
I admire your engaging defense of SCCY. However, unless you are an officer or senior manager of SCCY Enterprises every statement you made is just conjecture not backed up by fact.
You have no clue regarding their profit margin, the cost of CNC machines, their breakdown, their cost and their upkeep. You don't know the rate of return, the cost of utilities such as electricity. You don't know how much engineering Joe Roebuck does, if any. It appears his brainchild the CPX3 isn't turning out as expected. You don't even know how many people SCCY employs and what they do. And you don't know how many pistols SCCY has produced. Serial numbers are no indicator of production amounts. You don't know how they keep the lights on and continue production. Maybe they are making a profit. But there are thousands and thousands of companies, some very very large that have continued in business for a long long time, sucking up investors dollars, until they closed the doors.

Major gun reviews are useless. Most major gun reviewers are sent the firearms by the manufacturers and in some cases receive product or compensation. Bad reviews put them out of business. But if you were to research the internet you would find a decent number of negative reviews.

While you spent a lot of time justifying your mom and dad's purchase for you, there is nothing you stated that you know anything about or have any verifiable information. But I admire your efforts.


You're quite right. Most of this is conjecture. But to soak up investor dollars while operating in the red for over a decade seems preposterous. I'm not defending them. If they make a crap gun they make a crap gun. I've already settled on my next purchase not being a SCCY. I'm just genuinely curious about how, after a decade of producing a shoddy product and, based on the comments here, having a majority of them returned for service they're still able to keep the doors open.

EDIT: Submitted the prior to the end of typing.

Again, I'm not trying to support, endorse, or otherwise adjudicate SCCY from any malpractice. I have a genuine interest in how they're doing it. There has to be some sort of logical number in play. Like you pointed out, we have no clue what their margin is. It could be much higher than I estimate. I DO have a background in CNC machining and I DO have a good understanding of the cost associated with their machining process. The machines they use (Fanuc Robodrill T14's, as advertised on their website), run somewhere in the neighborhood of $20-$36K depending on a myriad of factors, such as model year, new or used, and the like. They're not cheap at all, and I do know their maintenance schedule. It's not cheap.

I can't find the article online, but a while back I read in the local paper that Joe Roebuck had stated he was considering moving the business to another state (I believe it was North Carolina) due to that state dangling tax incentives, and his need to find more manufacturing space. Daytona wouldn't give him a tax break on moving to a new facility. That hasn't happened to date, but the fact that at one point he was seeking to move to another state to grow suggests the company is growing, or at least has enough liquidity on hand to pay the cost of shutting down production, loading it on a truck, moving it to another state, and train a whole new fleet of workers. Or he was bluffing and he doesn't have the cash, who knows?

My point is they're not operating in the red -- or at least they haven't been operating in the red for 12 years. Find me one venture capitalist, one investor, one bank who's going to watch their money get flushed for 12 years and not pull the plug, especially if the product is as dire as you purport it to be. I'm not claiming it to be an M&P or Glock. I'm saying that somewhere, somehow, the logic for me doesn't connect. I want to know those numbers, or at least have a logical conversation about what those numbers could theoretically be.


They do it like everyone now: they buy junk from china for next to nothing and sell high. This leaves plenty of margin for everything. And most of them must work most of the time or they would be under. They need to replace again or buy back the ones that don't work.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby strider43 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:09 am

Silverbullet wrote:Just about 200 rounds thru mine. Perfect function. Good accuracy. I like it. This forum seems to be occupied by unhappy customers,which is unfortunate. May I suggest reading customer feedback at Bud's, Cabelas, Classic etc. Spoiler alert, they are way more positive than posters here.


That because they edit their reviews, I know for fact cabelas edits them.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby economod » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:14 am

Mrbone wrote:... The replacement was broken right out of the box. ...

strider43 wrote:... The replacement out of the box didn't work, ...

After 50 days, they finally sent me a replacement, too.
I sincerely hope it works flawlessly for its new owner.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby Merc6 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:27 am

I wonder if my nephews was defective or not. His unused magazine worked better than the 2 that came with mine. From the rounds left and receipts he left behind, it looks like he only fired 18 rounds though it before it was his EDC.


I think I'm convinced a new frame may help. They said they also send the old one back in case I want s to go back to it. I hope my luck with warranty is the same as my extended on my car. My extended replaced 3 years old blown door speakers where others could barely get a Ball Joint or wheel Bering covered.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby FloridaPilot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:20 am

strider43 wrote:They do it like everyone now: they buy junk from china for next to nothing and sell high. This leaves plenty of margin for everything. And most of them must work most of the time or they would be under. They need to replace again or buy back the ones that don't work.


I was physically at the plant yesterday for a conversion of my CPX-1 to a CPX-2. The interesting thing is, as I found a parking spot, near the back of the building were new containers branded from DuPont, the maker of Zytel. There were also pallets of steel bar stock being opened up as I parked. I'm not sure what they buy other than springs? I only know that because I was told by a representative there that the buy them. But they had steel, polymer, and I'm sure if I looked I would have found aluminum. Buying raw materials from China doesn't make sense, when DuPont's name is on the barrels.

I guess the second point is what stumps me the most. Most of their guns must work most of the time. At least that's the only logical way for any producer of any good to stay in business. What investor is going to jump into a sinking ship with a shoddy product and a questionable track record. Also, to date, is anyone aware of a catastrophic failure that has been confirmed to be caused exclusively by the failure of the gun? I would consider a loss of life due to a failure-in-conflict a catastrophic failure, but I wouldn't consider the failure of the weapon due to a squid the fault of the gun.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby Merc6 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:52 am

I wonder if the CPX 3 quad lock was the fix for my front end wobble. Anyone see it in pieces?
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby FloridaPilot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:01 pm

Merc6 wrote:I wonder if the CPX 3 quad lock was the fix for my front end wobble. Anyone see it in pieces?


I think I read this before, but can you please explain this in further detail? Mine does shift on the front end about 1/8 of an inch if its pushed from side to side, however, it does not move freely on its own. Intended force must be used.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby Merc6 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:04 pm

FloridaPilot wrote:
Merc6 wrote:I wonder if the CPX 3 quad lock was the fix for my front end wobble. Anyone see it in pieces?


I think I read this before, but can you please explain this in further detail? Mine does shift on the front end about 1/8 of an inch if its pushed from side to side, however, it does not move freely on its own. Intended force must be used.


Yes, that's what I describe. This quad lock sounds like "standard practice" for other makers to make the slide not move like that. Shaking the gun sounds like a Ruger 1911 or a Rock Island Armory 1911. My Glock had a rattle but it was the rounds in the double stack magazine moving as the slide rests against the top of the 1st round compressing the spring. No mag, no rattles. Anyone with shims find that to go away? You think we could use nylon washers between the pins to take up slack?
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby FloridaPilot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:16 pm

Merc6 wrote:
FloridaPilot wrote:
Merc6 wrote:I wonder if the CPX 3 quad lock was the fix for my front end wobble. Anyone see it in pieces?


I think I read this before, but can you please explain this in further detail? Mine does shift on the front end about 1/8 of an inch if its pushed from side to side, however, it does not move freely on its own. Intended force must be used.


Yes, that's what I describe. This quad lock sounds like "standard practice" for other makers to make the slide not move like that. Shaking the gun sounds like a Ruger 1911 or a Rock Island Armory 1911. My Glock had a rattle but it was the rounds in the double stack magazine moving as the slide rests against the top of the 1st round compressing the spring. No mag, no rattles. Anyone with shims find that to go away? You think we could use nylon washers between the pins to take up slack?


From what I understand, QuadLock won't have any effect on the mating of the slide and the rails, which is what you describe. The 1/8" travel occurs because of the relatively short rails compared to the relatively long slide. By this I mean the lack of rails forward of the receiver main body provide enough freedom that the point at which the rails end becomes a fulcrum, and the wobble is the product of travel from the tolerance between the rail and the slide.

QuadLock, as has been described, has nothing to do with the interaction of the slide and the rails, but instead is a function of mating the barrel and the slide in a consistent manner. The standard locked breech design functions fine in your pistol, and the wobble isn't a factor in accuracy. So long as the breech properly locks each time, your barrel is seated in the slide, which moves as a whole. This means the sighting picture is unaffected by the "wobble."
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby Merc6 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:50 pm

FloridaPilot wrote:
From what I understand, QuadLock won't have any effect on the mating of the slide and the rails, which is what you describe. The 1/8" travel occurs because of the relatively short rails compared to the relatively long slide. By this I mean the lack of rails forward of the receiver main body provide enough freedom that the point at which the rails end becomes a fulcrum, and the wobble is the product of travel from the tolerance between the rail and the slide.

QuadLock, as has been described, has nothing to do with the interaction of the slide and the rails, but instead is a function of mating the barrel and the slide in a consistent manner. The standard locked breech design functions fine in your pistol, and the wobble isn't a factor in accuracy. So long as the breech properly locks each time, your barrel is seated in the slide, which moves as a whole. This means the sighting picture is unaffected by the "wobble."


I hope so, We will see when it comes back.
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby FloridaPilot » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:41 pm

parkerd wrote:"Also, to date, is anyone aware of a catastrophic failure that has been confirmed to be caused exclusively by the failure of the gun? I would consider a loss of life due to a failure-in-conflict a catastrophic failure, but I wouldn't consider the failure of the weapon due to a squid the fault of the gun."

If anyone was killed because their CPX failed I doubt if they would be able to post on this forum.


Don't get smart. You should be intelligent enough to know that "consider a loss of life due to a failure-in-conflict" was a qualifier to the question, not the question itself. And if someone had been killed due to a shootout and a jammed SCCY, someone, somewhere would know about it. #evidencelogs?
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby Merc6 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:09 pm

My nephew but it wasn't from malfunction. He locked it in the glovebox before going into a gun free zone and was on his way home and saw no reason to get it back out. All his wounds are consistent with trying to bruit force the glove box while taking 7 of 8 rounds though his car door and window. His gun was new (got receipt) and appears he only fired 18 rounds at range and then loaded 1 10 round for EDC. Which still brings me back to my key and his key are the same for the gun locks. Is that normal to happen like door handles in the same batch from Home Depot having the same keys?
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Re: Let's Talk: SCCY The Company

Postby economod » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:33 pm

Sorry to hear about your nephew. Sounds horrible.
It doesn't surprise me that two different keys work the same lock.
I doubt that they're serialized to a specific pistol.
They might all work with the same key.
Last edited by economod on Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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