Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

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Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:30 pm

I had a good shoot at the range today, first time since the SCCY factory repair.
Also, first time since adding GT-5000 rubber grip tape to both side panels and backstrap.
Used just the original two magazines, one with flat plate and one with finger extension.
By felt recoil, I could easily tell that the WWB was the hotter of the two loads.

Fired 140 rounds total, with 5 failures to extract:
80 - 115gr Winchester White Box Brass (USA9MMVP-1190fps) ... (3) Fail to Extract
60 - 115gr Federal Champion Brass (WM51991-1125fps) ... (2) Fail to Extract
There were no other malfunctions.

Probably hit 75% or more within a 6" group at 7 yards ... straight-on and 2" high.
Caught myself flinching several times, expecting "bang" too soon.
Had unconsciously been staging the long trigger pull while aligning sights to enhance accuracy.

The slide hold spring issue has been resolved. :) The weapon did not have an extractor issue prior to that factory repair, so I assume (?) the new extractor was a design upgrade, as was the recoil rod/spring assembly. I don't know if the new extractor just needs more break-in wear. I'm assuming so at this point. What do you think?
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:58 am

After sleeping on it, I realize that each time there was a fail to extract, and I tried to remove the loaded magazine, the magazine was inhibited to release from the gun. I believe that the tip of the next round was pushing against the still-chambered empty case. After pulling the magazine from the grip, the empty case always just fell free from the chamber when I turned it upside down. I didn't notice any strange markings on the spent cases.

Next time I will try turning the magazine springs around, the way they originally came when new.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby getvicious » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:49 am

Replacing the recoil rod assy seems to be a generic replacement doneby SCCY whenever a pistol is serviced. I think it's because it is very easy and can have such a great effect if it is worn.

The fail to extract thing is interesting. The spring should be placed so the high point is toward the front. But, whatever works is the way to go. Sounds like your experiment is the way figure it out. Please let us know how that turns out for you.
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby arcus10mm » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:09 pm

ditto on the next round cause ?? ---THE MAGAZINE is a VERY in portent part on any simi auto - try one round at time no magazine=== mine works fine that way your mileage may very.....Im going to 124g and see it will work?????
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:50 pm

getvicious wrote: The spring should be placed so the high point is toward the front. But, whatever works is the way to go.

Yes. The way I see it is that the magazine and the spring are each in the shape of a parallelogram, and should be assembled with that in mind. Mine were backwards when I first learned to look for it, and I corrected them. But I'll try it the other way to see if it works better. Thanks.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:05 am

I also noticed something about the 9mm Tulammo Brass Maxx from the 100rd plastic tub that my brother was shooting thru his new Taurus Millennium G2 (with zero issues). That ammo seemed about 1/16" shorter in overall length, with less pointed, rounder shaped nose, than the Fed or WWB I was shooting. It's also a couple bucks cheaper. I'll be getting a tub of that next time.

I suspect its shorter length might alleviate this extraction interference problem, but I wouldn't be happy with that specific ammo constraint.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby sccytoter » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:51 pm

economod wrote:I also noticed something about the 9mm Tulammo Brass Maxx from the 100rd plastic tub that my brother was shooting thru his new Taurus Millennium G2 (with zero issues). That ammo seemed about 1/16" shorter in overall length, with less pointed, rounder shaped nose, than the Fed or WWB I was shooting. It's also a couple bucks cheaper. I'll be getting a tub of that next time.

I suspect its shorter length might alleviate this extraction interference problem, but I wouldn't be happy with that specific ammo constraint.

Well, the cartridge OAL may be shorter with the Tul, but once it is fired it should make no difference. Case length on the 9mm Luger is 19mm, no matter who is packing the ammo. I guess I don't see how extraction would be an issue, once the round is shot. :?:
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:17 pm

The next round could be interfering with the extraction, which could be a magazine issue.
And like I said, the shorter length of the Tul Ammo could also alleviate an extraction interference problem.
I'm just grasping at straws.
The only thing I know for sure is ... it can malfunction at any time ... so I'm still working on it.
And wondering what I'd get for it in trade at my LGS for a Sig P250sc.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby getvicious » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:45 pm

economod wrote:The next round could be interfering with the extraction, which could be a magazine issue.
And like I said, the shorter length of the Tul Ammo could also alleviate an extraction interference problem.
I'm just grasping at straws.
The only thing I know for sure is ... it can malfunction at any time ... so I'm still working on it.
And wondering what I'd get for it in trade at my LGS for a Sig P250sc.

My guess would be 50% (at most) of estimated used sale price. If I was a dealer I'd give you no more than $125.00. Then I'd mark it at $250.00. If I knew you were having issues I'd offer no more than $75.00. I know that may sound harsh but the dealer has to be able to mark it up enough to cover their overhead.
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:38 am

getvicious wrote:My guess would be 50% (at most) of estimated used sale price. If I was a dealer I'd give you no more than $125.00. Then I'd mark it at $250.00. If I knew you were having issues I'd offer no more than $75.00. I know that may sound harsh but the dealer has to be able to mark it up enough to cover their overhead.

My LGS sells them brand new for $250. Same price I paid a year ago.

I haven't given up yet.
Maybe reversing the mag springs will work. Maybe not. I'm not even sure it's a mag problem, but it's something I can try. I'll fire another $100 worth of ammo through it and see what happens. Until then, I've lost some confidence in these mags for now, so that's where I'm focusing. My outdoor range is 30mi away.

What does "adjusted magazines" mean?
I had assumed they were inspected for concave seam welds, and somehow flattened. But now I suspect the feed lips are routinely tweaked to achieve a proper feed angle. Idunno. I accept, with an inexpensive weapon, that adjustments will need to be made. Mine might be close to being reliable. Or, it might be as good as it will ever be.

5 jambs of 140 rounds (1/28) is the best this gun has done so far at the range, so it is improving.
But it will have to improve some more before I carry it.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby arcus10mm » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:13 am

economod i feel your pain as mine has been POS from day 1----read up on 1911 and BHP problems AKA lock breach tilting barrel lots of info out there ---as for mine one more range trip with 124g ---its gotta work or it goes back to SCCY (3rd time) UNREPAIRABLE ......i dont hang things on the wall ....your mileage may very
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby getvicious » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:00 pm

economod wrote:
getvicious wrote:My guess would be 50% (at most) of estimated used sale price. If I was a dealer I'd give you no more than $125.00. Then I'd mark it at $250.00. If I knew you were having issues I'd offer no more than $75.00. I know that may sound harsh but the dealer has to be able to mark it up enough to cover their overhead.

My LGS sells them brand new for $250. Same price I paid a year ago.

I haven't given up yet.
Maybe reversing the mag springs will work. Maybe not. I'm not even sure it's a mag problem, but it's something I can try. I'll fire another $100 worth of ammo through it and see what happens. Until then, I've lost some confidence in these mags for now, so that's where I'm focusing. My outdoor range is 30mi away.

What does "adjusted magazines" mean?
I had assumed they were inspected for concave seam welds, and somehow flattened. But now I suspect the feed lips are routinely tweaked to achieve a proper feed angle. Idunno. I accept, with an inexpensive weapon, that adjustments will need to be made. Mine might be close to being reliable. Or, it might be as good as it will ever be.

5 jambs of 140 rounds (1/28) is the best this gun has done so far at the range, so it is improving.
But it will have to improve some more before I carry it.

You report extraction issues. That doesn't sound like a magazine issue, more like an extractor or recoil rod assy issue.

The recoil rod assy can cause many issues up to cracking a slide.

Adjusted magazines seems to mean adjust the lips and examine / debur the follower. No manufacturer will rework the magazine body, they'll just pull another magazine out of stock and replace it, if needed. Warranty work is pure loss for a company - they already got the sale income - warranty work is pure outgo and must be done as quickly and least expensively as possible.

You mention the reliability is improving. Some owners have reported issues clearing up with a break-in period. It also may be an ammo issue. Some CPX pistols seam to work well with some ammo and poorly with other ammo. The trick is to be able to have the time and money to find the ammo that works.

You previously mentioned the BrassMaxx ammo OAL measured slightly less than other ammo (WWB?). Others have measured the SCCY magazines and reported they are a bit short so ammo on the small side of SAAMI specs should feed better.

Keep pestering SCCY if issues continue. Invoke that warranty over and over. That's what it's there for. If you become a large enough issue to them, they may just replace the gun.
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:16 pm

* You report extraction issues. That doesn't sound like a magazine issue, more like an extractor or recoil rod assy issue.
* The recoil rod assy can cause many issues up to cracking a slide.
* Adjusted magazines seems to mean adjust the lips and examine / debur the follower. No manufacturer will rework the magazine body, they'll just pull another magazine out of stock and replace it, if needed. Warranty work is pure loss for a company - they already got the sale income - warranty work is pure outgo and must be done as quickly and least expensively as possible.


The extractor and recoil rod assy are new, and the magazines are newly adjusted. I believe it's more of an extraction "interference" issue. Perhaps the mags have been overly tweaked a wee bit, and perhaps reversing the mag springs will provide enough offset. It's worth a try. Or, maybe I'll try tweaking those feed lips a bit myself.

* You mention the reliability is improving. Some owners have reported issues clearing up with a break-in period. It also may be an ammo issue. Some CPX pistols seam to work well with some ammo and poorly with other ammo. The trick is to be able to have the time and money to find the ammo that works.

The Federal Champion from Walmart fed fine before the mags were adjusted. The Winchester White Box is nearly identical in form, and both of those cartridges had a few jambs, which I am attributing to too steep feed angle, causing interference to extract the previous spent case.
I've not given up. I'll feed it more ammo. And time will tell if the trick is to find the right ammo, or the right gun.


* You previously mentioned the BrassMaxx ammo OAL measured slightly less than other ammo (WWB?). Others have measured the SCCY magazines and reported they are a bit short so ammo on the small side of SAAMI specs should feed better.

The Brass Maxx is definitely shorter in overall length. I hadn't shot any of it, but was easily noticeable at first glance. I've since seen other reports about it. I wouldn't enjoy being limited specifically to short ammo.
Also, I'd read some about the shortness of the SCCY magazines, and the concavity of the welded seam after it cools, causing even more shortness, leading to jambed cartridges inside the mags. That's what I thought the magazine adjustments at the factory were in response to.


Keep pestering SCCY if issues continue. Invoke that warranty over and over. That's what it's there for. If you become a large enough issue to them, they may just replace the gun.

Yeah, I'll keep shooting it. I like this gun, and I want it to work. If I don't discover a remedy, I'll contact SCCY again.
Thanks for your interest!
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby economod » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:00 am

I did a forum search for "WWB length" and found that there have already been in-depth discussions concerning FTE malfunctions related to overall cartridge length in our SCCY pistols ... er, not all of them, just some, like mine. One side of the argument contends that the SCCY magazines and/or slide design are at fault. The other side blames out of spec ammunition. I am not interested to be a part of this. I will fire a 100rnd tub of the shorter-length TulAmmo 115gr FMJ brass case imported from Bosnia-Herzegovina, and determine my direction upon those results.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Good, not great ... 5 of 140 failed to extract

Postby arcus10mm » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:36 am

GRIP AKA limp wristing
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