Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

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Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:00 pm

Getting ready for tomorrows range day. Routine clean & lube.
Fine wet-sand shine barrel. Infill slide engraves with white epoxy paint.
Lookin' goo ... hmmm ... really? ... really?
Yeah ... frame cracked on both sides at rear pin.

I'm still gonna shoot it. > [edit ... I did not shoot it. I sent it to SCCY for repair.]

I'll be calling SCCY for a shipping tag.
I know they'll fix it and have it back to me in about a week. > [edit ... It took 15 days.]
Then I get to apply new grip tape. Good thing I bought six strips.
Last edited by economod on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:07 am, edited 4 times in total.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby getvicious » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:52 pm

There were a few reports of cracking frames a while back but none recently. Strange yours should crack now. I wonder if we'll see this come back?

If SCCY tells you any reason for the cracking, please let us know.
It's not the blast that kills you - It's the tumble to the bottom of the 800 foot crater.....
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:21 am

getvicious wrote:There were a few reports of cracking frames a while back but none recently. Strange yours should crack now.

Yeah, I think my gun originated from that era.
Serial Number & Test Date ... 130xxx-March'14
See photos and a summary of cracked frames here ... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15593&p=49221#p49221

At 200 rounds I found this forum, due to the slide locking back intermittently.
The slide hold spring had slipped behind the lever, allowing the lever to fly-up 3-4 times every mag.
I assumed back then, that the thin wall of the poly frame had flexed enough to detach the spring.
SCCY repaired, no charge. Same original frame, new lever, other updates, back in ten days (Fri-Mon).
Then I discovered that the magazine springs were installed backwards / nose-down.
Then I learned that long factory ammo interferes with extraction, ergo my quest for shorter factory ammo.
Now this cracked frame. I thought I was lucky that the pins hadn't started walking. That's probably next.

Maybe two small frame pins would be adequate IF the receiver fit tighter into the frame.
Maybe this loose-in-frame receiver is causing the extraction fails ... the mag is independent of the receiver.
Where's the 9mm polymer beef? One more ounce, please.
The .380acp should do very well in this lightweight frame.

Or ... maybe I'm just gripping it too damn tight? :wink:
Last edited by economod on Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby getvicious » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:28 am

economod wrote:
getvicious wrote:There were a few reports of cracking frames a while back but none recently. Strange yours should crack now.

Yeah, I think my gun originated from that era.
Serial Number & Test Date ... 130xxx-March'14

At 200 rounds I found this forum, due to the slide locking back intermittently.
The slide hold spring had slipped behind the lever, allowing the lever to fly-up 3-4 times every mag.
I assumed back then, that the thin wall of the poly frame had flexed enough to detach the spring.
SCCY repaired, no charge. Same original frame, new lever, other updates, back in ten days (Fri-Mon).
Then I discovered that the magazine springs were installed backwards / nose-down.
Then I learned that long factory ammo interferes with extraction, ergo my quest for shorter factory ammo.
Now this cracked frame. I thought I was lucky that the pins hadn't started walking. That's probably next.

Maybe two small frame pins would be adequate IF the receiver fit tighter into the frame.
Maybe this loose-in-frame receiver is causing the extraction fails ... the mag is independent of the receiver.
Where's the 9mm polymer beef? One more ounce, please.
The .380acp should do very well in this lightweight frame.

Or ... maybe I'm just gripping it too damn tight? :wink:

SCCY's answer to the cracking frames was to slightly change the frame and (I think) reinforce the rear a bit. At least when you get your CPX back it will have a new frame.

That whole "ammo too long" stuff is fairly new. It's been reported by several people, including some folks who have taken actual measurements of their magazines, so it's obviously a real issue.

It's funny how it started at a very definite point. I have 3 magazines from my Gen 1 CPX I got in 2010 and 2 magazines that came with the Gen 2 CPX in 2012. I've never had any issue with ammo length in those mags. All ammo I've tried has functioned well, including the stuff that's supposed to be the longer ammo. I think SCCY changed their manufacturing specs on the mags at some point and now that OAL issue exists where there was none before.

This is the ammo I've used, all worked well. Some feel better to me when I shoot it than others but I haven't had OAL & mag issues with any of this ammo.
Blazer 115 Grain FMJ
Dynamic Research Technologies 85 Grain HP Frangible +P
Federal American Eagle 124 Grain FMJ
Federal Champion 115 Grain FMJ
Federal Premium 135 Grain HYDRA-SHOK JHP
Hornady Critical Defense 115 Grain FTX
Hornady ZombieMAX 115 Grain Z-MAX
Magtech 115 Grain FMJ
Magtech Guardian Gold 124 Grain JHP
Perfecta 115 Grain FMJ (Italy - CIP)
PPU 115 Grain FMJ
Remington UMC 115 Grain JHP
Remington UMC 115 Grain FMJ (MC)
RWS Sport Line 124 Grain FMJ
TulAmmo BrassMAXX 115 Grain FMJ
WWB 115 Grain FMJ
WWB 124 Grain FMJ NATO
WWB 147 Grain JHP
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:01 pm

getvicious wrote:That whole "ammo too long" stuff is fairly new.

I think that's been going on longer than most folks are aware.
Just search the forum to see how often WWB has been reported as a failure culprit.

But many things could be the cause.
If the recoil isn't controlled, cartridges can slide forward in the mag, causing extraction interference.
So it could be a mag design problem, a recoil control problem, a loose-fit receiver/frame problem, etc, etc.
Shorter OAL ammo just seems to be the simplest remedy to the extraction interferernce.
And I could build trust & confidence in this gun if that's the case, but the frame must remain in one piece.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby getvicious » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:22 pm

economod wrote:
getvicious wrote:That whole "ammo too long" stuff is fairly new.

I think that's been going on longer than most folks are aware.
Just search the forum to see how often WWB has been reported as a failure culprit.

But many things could be the cause.
If the recoil isn't controlled, cartridges can slide forward in the mag, causing extraction interference.
So it could be a mag design problem, a recoil control problem, a loose-fit receiver/frame problem, etc, etc.
Shorter OAL ammo just seems to be the simplest remedy to the extraction interferernce.
And I could build trust & confidence in this gun if that's the case, but the frame must remain in one piece.

I hear that. 8)
It's not the blast that kills you - It's the tumble to the bottom of the 800 foot crater.....
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby arcus10mm » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:20 am

when mine went in for extraction problems (3rd time) SCCY swapped out one mag--twink the other-tightened up front pin (some type of a silicone)and changed the extractor it has run 100% with the limited use scene its return (3rd time)
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:28 am

getvicious wrote:SCCY's answer to the cracking frames was to slightly change the frame and (I think) reinforce the rear a bit. At least when you get your CPX back it will have a new frame.

If the frame pins were larger diameter, they'd disperse energy over a greater area, and reduce the potential of cracking.
And using a third frame pin (like the P11 and PF9) could only enhance that same concept.
Those aren't my ideas. It's been discussed here before.
On the other hand, maybe it's better to sacrifice the poly grip, rather than crack the aluminum receiver ... hmmm?

Yeah, a new frame. I'll again fit & install another piece of GT-5000 rubber grip tape on the new slick frame.
The tape was just $10 for six pieces, and just one piece will fit both sides and the front and back straps.
Fortunately I didn't lose the cost of precut grip overlays. Ahh ... the silver lining. :|
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby arcus10mm » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:25 am

economod wrote:
getvicious wrote:SCCY's answer to the cracking frames was to slightly change the frame and (I think) reinforce the rear a bit. At least when you get your CPX back it will have a new frame.

If the frame pins were larger diameter, they'd disperse energy over a greater area, and reduce the potential of cracking.
And using a third frame pin (like the P11 and PF9) could only enhance that same concept.
Those aren't my ideas. It's been discussed here before.
On the other hand, maybe it's better to sacrifice the poly grip, rather than crack the aluminum receiver ... hmmm?

Yeah, a new frame. I'll again fit & install another piece of GT-5000 rubber grip tape on the new slick frame.
The tape was just $10 for six pieces, and just one piece will fit both sides and the front and back straps.
Fortunately I didn't lose the cost of precut grip overlays. Ahh ... the silver lining. :|

ITS called the "grip" the frame has the ser# as for two small pins DESIGN FLAW .........IMO
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:39 am

arcus10mm wrote:ITS called the "grip" the frame has the ser# as for two small pins DESIGN FLAW .........IMO

There is no part called the grip.
The frame (01-008) has a grip area.
The receiver (01-007) has the serial number.
Here's a link to the manual ... http://www.sccy.com/sites/default/files ... r-2013.pdf
Refer to pages 28-32 for parts.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby arcus10mm » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:58 am

economod wrote:
arcus10mm wrote:ITS called the "grip" the frame has the ser# as for two small pins DESIGN FLAW .........IMO

There is no part called the grip.
The frame (01-008) has a grip area.
The receiver (01-007) has the serial number.
Here's a link to the manual ... http://www.sccy.com/sites/default/files ... r-2013.pdf
Refer to pages 28-32 for parts.

OK fine it still has two "small" pins that go through the receiver and hold the "frame grip thing" AND THEY STILL use this flawed design and to "repair" this flaw they bend-glue-over size................ AND THEY STILL WALK...............
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:10 am

It's even more disappointing that it appears the new 380 uses the same two-small-pins design.
The 380 will have less force to control than the 9mm, but it just makes more sense to improve that design now.
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby getvicious » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:07 am

Has anyone contacted SCCY about the engineering issues behind the small frame pins? There are a lot of comments on the forum here but that doesn't let SCCY know anything.

As a side note the original (1st Gen) CPX-1 has frame pins about twice the diameter as the pins used in the 2nd Gen models. For some reason SCCY went to smaller diameter pins in the 2nd Gen models.
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby economod » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:16 am

getvicious wrote:... As a side note the original (1st Gen) CPX-1 has frame pins about twice the diameter as the pins used in the 2nd Gen models.

Yeah, I saw a pic recently of the original CPX with the two large frame pins. I'll look for it again.
SCCY-FirstGen-Left.jpg

SCCY-FirstGen-Right.jpg
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: Cracked Frame at Rear Pin

Postby getvicious » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:46 pm

parkerd wrote:"Has anyone contacted SCCY about the engineering issues behind the small frame pins? There are a lot of comments on the forum here but that doesn't let SCCY know anything."

There is this forum to inform SCCY about any issues. As far as I can determine the only forum dedicated to SCCY. If I were an SCCY executive I would myself or appoint someone to read this forum daily. I know that Jason would occasionally be on here. Lots of good info about the good and bad of their product. Hope they are reading it.

Jason left the forum probably a year ago at the direction of his management. He was the only SCCY employee openly registered on here. No idea if anyone is looking occasionally as a lurker and no way to tell.
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