hollow points

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Re: hollow points

Postby curly84 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:32 pm

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Re: hollow points

Postby strider43 » Fri May 27, 2016 10:16 am

Hey all,

I have found with the low quality of the parts that even if you find ammo that seems to run good through your SCCY pistol that it may still jam/or have feed issues randomly.
I have had decent success with Remington 115 GRN JHP ammo. Independence 115 GRN JHP works as well as it can to.
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Re: hollow points

Postby strider43 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:52 am

I have just read an article which the data is backed by test folks in the industry. Most JHP wont expand when shot from pistols with less than 4" barrels. I did some non scientific test with water jugs and found this to be correct that there is no notable expansion of the JHP slug when shot with my sccy pistol. The same rounds do expand when shot from my 9 MM with longer barrels.
there was one JHP that did well in shorter barrels. Remington Golden Saber, 124 grn P+
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Re: hollow points

Postby getvicious » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:20 pm

strider43 wrote:I have just read an article which the data is backed by test folks in the industry. Most JHP wont expand when shot from pistols with less than 4" barrels. I did some non scientific test with water jugs and found this to be correct that there is no notable expansion of the JHP slug when shot with my sccy pistol. The same rounds do expand when shot from my 9 MM with longer barrels.
there was one JHP that did well in shorter barrels. Remington Golden Saber, 124 grn P+

Check out "ShootingTheBull410" on YouTube. He did a whole series of really good, objective, ammo tests from a 3 inch barrel pistol. Some JHP ammo did really well.
It's not the blast that kills you - It's the tumble to the bottom of the 800 foot crater.....
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Re: hollow points

Postby tripleb » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:32 pm

strider43 wrote:I have just read an article which the data is backed by test folks in the industry. Most JHP wont expand when shot from pistols with less than 4" barrels. I did some non scientific test with water jugs and found this to be correct that there is no notable expansion of the JHP slug when shot with my sccy pistol. The same rounds do expand when shot from my 9 MM with longer barrels.
there was one JHP that did well in shorter barrels. Remington Golden Saber, 124 grn P+


Here you go strider43:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... TheBull410
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Re: hollow points

Postby strider43 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:53 pm

tripleb wrote:
strider43 wrote:I have just read an article which the data is backed by test folks in the industry. Most JHP wont expand when shot from pistols with less than 4" barrels. I did some non scientific test with water jugs and found this to be correct that there is no notable expansion of the JHP slug when shot with my sccy pistol. The same rounds do expand when shot from my 9 MM with longer barrels.
there was one JHP that did well in shorter barrels. Remington Golden Saber, 124 grn P+


Here you go strider43:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... TheBull410


Really? Do your home work. This guys test are almost COMPLETELY BOGUS
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Re: hollow points

Postby getvicious » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:01 am

strider43 wrote:
Really? Do your home work. This guys test are almost COMPLETELY BOGUS

Why do you say that? They seem very objective.
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Re: hollow points

Postby strider43 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:36 am

getvicious wrote:
strider43 wrote:
Really? Do your home work. This guys test are almost COMPLETELY BOGUS

Why do you say that? They seem very objective.


I got that from the GD JHP G-2 review and one other where the guy used non approved methods not in line with the FBI testing. It was an unfair statement to all his stuff is junk.
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Re: hollow points

Postby FloridaPilot » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:35 pm

I'm not sure how the length of a barrel matters. Expansion is the dispersion of energy through the core of the bullet outward at the moment of impact with a target. If the round fails to expand, it would mean that there isn't enough kinetic energy to make the round do so. If that were the case, it would also mean that the round is not meeting the advertised speeds by the manufacturer.
While this is most commonly the case in compact pistols, they don't tend to differ with enough variance to prohibit the expansion of a hollow point. Lead is an exceptionally soft metal, so I find it hard to believe that a core I can sizably damage with one strike of a hammer wouldn't have the energy capacity upon impact to expand outward...

Either way, what's basically been said is that there's no point in ever carrying a compact firearm, and decades of 2" revolver experience is mute...
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Re: hollow points

Postby economod » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:59 am

FloridaPilot wrote:I'm not sure how the length of a barrel matters. ...

You might enjoy this ...
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: hollow points

Postby economod » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:48 am

strider43 wrote:
getvicious wrote:
strider43 wrote:
Really? Do your home work. This guys test are almost COMPLETELY BOGUS

Why do you say that? They seem very objective.


I got that from the GD JHP G-2 review and one other where the guy used non approved methods not in line with the FBI testing. It was an unfair statement to all his stuff is junk.

I think I've watched all of the 380acp and 9mm ammo quests from ShootingTheBull410.
This is my favorite 9mm video ... WWB 115gr JHP ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQNJoo ... -w4Yozc27i
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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Re: hollow points

Postby getvicious » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:54 pm

FloridaPilot wrote:I'm not sure how the length of a barrel matters. Expansion is the dispersion of energy through the core of the bullet outward at the moment of impact with a target. If the round fails to expand, it would mean that there isn't enough kinetic energy to make the round do so. If that were the case, it would also mean that the round is not meeting the advertised speeds by the manufacturer.
While this is most commonly the case in compact pistols, they don't tend to differ with enough variance to prohibit the expansion of a hollow point. Lead is an exceptionally soft metal, so I find it hard to believe that a core I can sizably damage with one strike of a hammer wouldn't have the energy capacity upon impact to expand outward...

Either way, what's basically been said is that there's no point in ever carrying a compact firearm, and decades of 2" revolver experience is mute...

The barrel length is important as a longer barrel results in a higher velocity for the bullet (up to a point). That's because the powder takes a certain amount of time to fully burn and develop the maximum pressure to drive the bullet at it's maximum velocity. Short barrels result in less than complete powder burn and lower velocity for the bullet. Lower velocity may be less than what's needed to allow the hollow point bullet to expand so it may act as a FMJ round.

As I understand it, most manufacturers test their rounds with pretty standard barrel lengths. Pistol ammo is usually tested in 4.5 inch barrels. If you fire your handgun, or rifle, and see a big fireball you can be assured the powder did not fully burn in the barrel and your bullet is not traveling at the maximum potential velocity.
It's not the blast that kills you - It's the tumble to the bottom of the 800 foot crater.....
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Re: hollow points

Postby wrench459 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:59 pm

getvicious wrote:
As I understand it, most manufacturers test their rounds with pretty standard barrel lengths. Pistol ammo is usually tested in 4.5 inch barrels. If you fire your handgun, or rifle, and see a big fireball you can be assured the powder did not fully burn in the barrel and your bullet is not traveling at the maximum potential velocity.


I was wondering about handgun ammo in a carbine.
Since I don't own a chronograph I took to the interweave. Most ppl agree that handgun ammo(9mm) in a 16 inch barrel will increase ~200 FPS.
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Re: hollow points

Postby FloridaPilot » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:15 pm

parkered wrote:You don't appear old enough to have experience in 2 inch revolvers, but the experience was there for decades was that it was light and concealable and was the only thing available that met those criteria. Additionally, until the 1980's most in law enforcement carried a revolver. Even when semi autos became readily available there was the problem of overcoming the prejudice and fear of this "new fangled" firearm. There were issues with the number of rounds, reloading, the accuracy of these pieces, but convenience was there. Also, we weren't focused on latest and greatest "bullet" either. A pile of criminals were stopped, dead, injured, disabled, by .38, .357, or even .380 and .32.


My two pistols are a Colt .38 Detective Special and a SCCY. I'm quite farmiliar with revolvers, having also held in trust an H&K from my grandfathers estate for my younger brother. The point I was trying to allude to is that while you might lose ~ 150fps between the 3-4" barrel (depending on a myriad of factors this number could be quite higher), hollow point expansion should be more than capable at ridiculously low speeds (in the neighborhood of 500FPS). At 6,000 inches per second, the mass of the bullet still needs a substantial amount of resistance to come to a stop. The trade off would be that it's going to have greatly reduced penetration and less expansion, but it should still expand and over penetration wouldn't be an issue. It would also take quite the distance for a round to slow to 500fps.
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Re: hollow points

Postby economod » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:19 am

FloridaPilot wrote:... hollow point expansion should be more than capable at ridiculously low speeds (in the neighborhood of 500FPS). At 6,000 inches per second, the mass of the bullet still needs a substantial amount of resistance to come to a stop. The trade off would be that it's going to have greatly reduced penetration and less expansion, but it should still expand and over penetration wouldn't be an issue. It would also take quite the distance for a round to slow to 500fps.

But first, the projectile must not distort its form when subjected to the forces of acceleration.
The projectile design cannot be too malleable for its intended velocity.
The barrel must sustain hundreds, if not thousands, of firings without be cleaned.
The HP form tip is meant to overcome the built-in hardiness required to accelerate thru a reusable barrel.
And it must be loaded/fed reliably and fired as fast as a trigger can be pulled (sabots? not likely).

Frangible ammo? Polymer ammo? Copper ammo? Effective depth of penetration? hmmm

More HP test results ... http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-de ... tic-tests/
The best results are achieved by hitting the intended target, quickly, more than once. IMO.

"Before God we are equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
2016 SCCY WOOD SHIMS > viewtopic.php?p=50025#p50025
9mm AMMO LENGTH > viewtopic.php?p=48248#p48248
CPX2 DESTROYED > viewtopic.php?p=51413#p51413
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